old belgian gun makers

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There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). It could be of relatively recent manufacture. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Bazin F.J. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Bernard Emile & Cie gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: . Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Baron Emile The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Bernard Henri Eugne Bertrand Antoine Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Bernard Victor & Cie JavaScript is disabled. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? Hi Gerard and everyone! Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Quick Facts Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. carefully bound by threads. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Its weight It was mandatory post-1924. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Four barrel . Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Wish I could be more helpful! The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Bischop Pierre "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. Anyone else know? listed in alphabetical order. Ancion Marx referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. JavaScript is disabled. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. cases. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Any idea what it all means? Arnold Mathias Chaumont M.J. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Pinterest Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Bayet Frres ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Ancion Jacques & Cie The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Can you send me some, Ed? and an eagles head. Many thanxPS:. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. stream I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Clment Walter Bernimolin If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. No maker's name at all. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Cap Joseph rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". Due to the Email: Info@hlebooks.com European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Colard Louis - Counet Lonard The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Quite old. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. The book On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. The Modern Shotgun. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Order this book online and pay it through LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Bettonville - Fontaine Baker, David J. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Comblain Hubert Joseph it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Some older foreign We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Christophe & Montigny If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Serial Numbers. Bauduin Charles "Cueruy" could be the maker. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. . Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Counet-Leboulle J. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Anonymes Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: British gunmakers of the 21st century - The Field Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. this book online and pay it through Paypal. Bertrand Joseph Clment-Neumann I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Comblain H. J. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection Beckers G. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Thank you for I can send pictures of it. weapon. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Collings Hadelin PDF PROOF MARKS ProoF MarKs - NRA Museum Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. How does it open? Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P.